>> chris from boston up way too early taking care of my wife after she completed her 25th marathon in four hours yesterday. >> chris from boston? >> chris from boston. >> congratulations. >> justin writes, i have a 3 1/2-month-old great dane puppy that is up. >> my dog is perfect. he's cajun. he's a rescue. we have a rescue named emma, too. she's so sweet comment when joe gets near her, she lashes out. thanks. "morning joe" starts right now. >> so you're saying i have no

sound bite? good morning, my friends. it's monday, november 19th. welcome to "morning joe." next three hours will change your life and, also, i think may reverse male pattern baldness for half our viewers. >> in fleming. >> yes. i have no idea. what did you just say? >> this show is slimming. >> okay. with us onset, senior political analyst and national editor for new york magazine. msnbc political analyst and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve ratner. in washington, chief foreign affairs correspondent and host "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> happy monday. go redskins. >> go redskins, man. >> impressive. >> thank god i'm not an eagles fan. it couldn't get much worse than philadelphia eagles. what about the jets?

they won big. they're like 2-18 now. >> on a roll. >> you're a jets fan, right? >> yes. >> jets and mets. >> jets and mets, they rhyme. >> they do rhyme. and they're both bad. >> all right. >> okay. there you go. great. we have a lot to talk about. >> a little counter fan agenda in new york. >> boy, i tell you what, you're thinking after the election nothing is going to happen? then you see those sunday shows yesterday? kaboom. >> too much to cover. >> kaboom. there's too much to cover. it's like ten pounds of sugar in a five-pound bag. >> oh, lord, i know. you use that term. >> it's not sugar. a lot of stuff going on, though. and yesterday, boy, there were some explosive back and forths. >> on some of the talk shows. let's start though with the budget negotiations on hold this week as lawmakers head home for the thanksgiving holiday. it's not stopping executives though. 40 of the largest publicly traded companieses in the united

states from scaling back their companies operations ahead of what could be a devastating combination of tax increases and deep spending cuts. republicans and democrats insist they are optimistic about the prospects of reaching a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, but now house democratic leader nancy pelosi says she won't budge when it comes to tax hikes for the wealthy, putting her directly at odds with house speaker john boehner. >> could you accept a deal that does not include tax rate increases for the wealthy? we've seen talk about a possible compromise that could leave rates the same but cap deductions for high-income earners. is that something that's acceptable? >> no. >> not at all no, way? >> no. the preponderance made it very clear in his campaign that there are not enough -- what you just described is a formula and a blueprint for hampering our future. you cannot go forward -- you have to cut some investments. if you cut too many you are

hampering growth, you're hampering education, investments for the future. >> and even thousands of miles away it appears president obama is still focused on those negotiations. while touring a royal monastery with secretary of state clinton in thailand the president was overheard mentioning the budget talks to a monk. the president later clarified his comments -- >> he's not any monk. >> no. >> he has some big i vestments in the stock market. >> he later clarified his comments at a news conference. >> yes, we were working on this budget. we're going to need a lot of prayer on that. i always believe in prayer. i believe in prayer when go to church back home and if a buddhist monk is wishing me well, i'll take whatever good

vibes he can give me to try to deal with some in his back home. i'm confident that we can get our fiscal situation dealt with. >> over the weekend president obama spoke with five influential business leaders, including warren buffett and apple's tim cook to get their take on a solution for a long-term deficit reduction plan. >> steve ratner, what's it looking like? the "wall street journal" story talking about a lot of companies really concerned about this sort of one-two punch, tax increases, spending cuts. >> there's no question that business is beginning to cut back, but the reasons are more complicated. the fiscal cliff is a big piece of it but you've got the overall economic slow down around the world, here, the middle east into the mix. so businesses are becoming more conservative. it's an interesting dichotomy because consumers have become more optimistic and a little bit more generous in terms of spending. but businesses worry. and that's why you see this enormous amount of business

activity around reducing the deficit. >> it seems that peer we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. if we fail of taking care of the fiscal crisis, investments will cut their investment. if we succeed in doing fiscal crisis and taking care of it, this article suggests that businesses will be concerned because we will have, you know, taken medicine in the form of tax increases and taken medicine in the form of spending cuts. >> but they have clarity. >> yeah. first of all, business wants some certainty. business hates uncertainty. this idea that you govern day to day, week to week, minute to minute in some cases, peering over the edges of cliffs, having debt ceilings come on top of you, secondly, business can do math and businesses look at the deficit numbers and look at the debt numbers and says the math doesn't work we have to address it. so if business would like would be a series of long-term adjust ms that would take effect

gradually will peebl have preg diktibility and run their business and rightly or wrongly, business believes that would be highly akreet if the economic activity. >> and care of long-term situation. so in the short run, what's. happening on the hill, guys? sounds like nancy pelosi is drawing a line in the sand, john boehner not far we behind. >> i think there are three areas people are worried about. one is if there's a two-part deal. if we get a deal on the lame duck, kicks a lot of decisions down the road. is that enough to get people to make decisions in a different way come the beginning of the year. >> is it? >> i don't know the answer to that. again, these are the three areas of uncertainty. second is health care. that's going to be part of this deal. and for a lot of businesses now, the tax issue gets a lot of attention but will obamacare be a drag on business? a lot of people in the private sector still don't get how it's supposed to help them control costs and deal with their overall payroll situation. finally, look, we may get a deal

amongst leaders that doesn't pass in the house the first time around. you see a lot of questions about the tea partiers, paul ryan and a these o. these, will they be on board. a lot of people are worried you can't get this done without having failures associated with it. >> john, we were hoping after the election this may be the age of aquarius, dogs and catse, blah, blah, blah. if you take what we saw over the weekend on the sunday talk shows, it's really host still from the left and the right. you see that what nancy pelosi said, what john boehner has been saying. then you go back to the president's press conference taking a pretty tough decisive tone on susan rice. and then you look at what's happening -- and also his position on the tax increases. take all of that together, it looks like more of the same.

do you think -- do you sense, from your reporting, are we just having people circle each other or are their feet in stone? >> i think there's still some areas where people can move and get to the right place. but, you know, the two things i just keep thinking about is i think the business community, i think, what steve says is exactly right. seems like from the outside what they want more than anything is certain certainty. just moment to moment and minute to minute, it's crisis to crisis. that's an atmosphere not conducive toward optimal economic activity. this notion of trying to get to long-term, as you said, to long-term stability but not having short-term austerity measures that would be too depressed on consumer activity seems like where we need to end up. i think there's going to be a lot of pressure on the business community on republicans to the question of the caucus versus leadersh leadership. that's going to be a lot of pressure on the republicans to

try to get there. whether that's in december or whether that's in the spring. you know, the notion as mark suggested that we might -- there might be a t.a.r.p. like environment where we do go over the cliff, the cliff, whatever that means, exactly, but we don't hit the first set of deadlines. something doesn't pass the first time, but then eventually some of the members of both sides are brought to heal by the prospect of -- >> the real -- not just the pending doom but doom actually present in their laps for a second. that seems like a possible scenario to me. i do think there still is, despite all sharp rhetoric, i still think on the republican side, which is so critical, this notion of the other thing you heard throughout all of the commentary for the last week and over the weekend is that the implications of the election still are -- is sinking in. republicans still -- you see with this continued criticism of romney's comments and so on. that's still setting? >> all right. you mentioned benghazi. let's go to the developments there in the on going

controversy over the administration's response to the attack on the u.s. consulate in bengha benghazi. members of congress are now vowing to find out why the cia's conclusion that terrorism was to blame for the attack was removed from u.n. ambassador susan rice's talking points. in the days following the deadly assault, rice said administration believed the attack was a reaction to an anti-islamic video. but, an associated press report says former cia director david petraeus testified on friday that he believed all along that the attack on the consulate was a terrorist strike. >> so let's -- before we set up these clips, let's make sure we set this up right. so we've been hearing, mark halperin, that susan rice said what she said because she was reading straight intel from the cia. we find out from david tet pet trace, this isn't true. that immediately david petraeus and intel officials knew this was an al qaeda attack.

right? >> it's still kind of confusing. >> i'm basing that on "the new york times" reports and everything that i read through the weekend. >> totality of the reporting is there was another line coming out of the closed hearing was that they didn't want to say everything they knew in public because they didn't want the terrorists to know that tus government was on to them. >> i heard that. but, i mean, seriously, al qaeda. they're like, oh, you know, we couldn't say it was al qaeda because that might expose some of our assets on the ground. andrea mitchell, the term al qaeda, like, if there's a terror attack in the middle east, do you say al qaeda, that's going to expose some of our assets on the ground? that does not, as my towards professor said, professor pearson, that does not pass the straight face test. >> or the smell test. i think the problem here is what this has exposed is the bureaucracy of the intelligence community. the fact that the intelligence community waters down what can

be said in a declassified setting and that susan rice, the criticism is that she took what they handed her and didn't challenge it, which her defenders, dianne feinstein on "meet the press" and others say that is not unfair. you're pilaring this woman. feinste feinstein's word, character assassination, to suggest she would read anything other than the unclassified version of this. a lot of people were asking where was hillary clinton that weekend? she knew better than to go out in the middle of this. they gave susan rice this assignment. she went on all five shows. it was supposed to be an important venue for her. and by going with these declassified talking points, she has now taken the hit. this reminds me very much, joe, mika, everybody, of what happened in the month leading up to the iraq war when the declassified version was different in thrust than what was known about wmd and what the senators should have been

reading. and the intelligence community has to be asked why do you tell the american public something that is different in meaning? it should be perhaps leave out detail, leave outsources and methods? >> again, though, the details here were al qaeda. >> exactly. >> just so people at home don't think this is just lindsey graham and john mccain going at it, it was especially tough on susan rice because susan rice read the intel briefings, she knew what the truth was and she chose to read something. if is t. the script was inaccurate, misleading, she shouldn't have read it. >> look. i think we have to go through this logically. what we know -- i think what we know is that the cai produced a set of talking points that included al qaeda, included more specific references to what happened. somewhere during an interagency process, i've been through them, these drafts get handed around. people mark them up. they mark them up for all different kinds of reasons.

somewhere along that way those words were changed. >> suggestion, of course, is by republicans, that -- >> that it was political. >> in the middle of the campaign. and, again, the president's punch line for a lot of speeches, gm's alive, obasama b laden's dead. >> before you get to the question of what susan rice should or shouldn't have said, i think we need to know the answer of who changed their talking points and why. then i think we'll know a lot more about what went on. >> i agree with that but this is not just a one off on ambassador rice went on the sunday shows and said this. jay carney was asked for a week about this and safe substantively the same answer. >> again, andrea, what i don't understand is susan rice said this five days in. the president -- remember, the president at the debate saying, you know, and candy crowley for some reason basically making up history on the run, said, well,

the president did say this was a terrorist attack the day after, which he really didn't say that at all. so there's an inconsistency even there. in the debate, the president said, we said this the day after that it was an act of terror. no, no, he didn't. and five days later, susan rice is reading a supposedly intel that says it wasn't a terror attack. i mean, there are -- there's confusion. >> why is this important, andrea? >> first of all, and why can't they get their stories straight a month and a half later? >> well, one reason is it's important for us to know about the intelligence failure leading up to and coming out of benghazi, according to the both republicans and democrats, there really wasn't an intelligence failure, they knew what was happening. why didn't the state department ask for more security and, more broadly, how should we handle regions like this where we want to have diplomatic and intelligence missions and we're

asking people to serve where they cannot properly be protected. there's also a proxy war going on here because susan rice had a very sharp tone during the 2008 campaign against some people like john mccain. and there is a disagreement there that is now being exaggerated all out of proportion, some people say, because they just are seeing this as a trophy where they can get a prominent nominee, potential nominee, for one of the top cabinet positions, treasury, state, defense. >> that's one side of it. the other side of it would be -- and i hate to say this -- but i wonder if that would be the narrative of george w. bush, we're accuse of doing, what, i don't know, politicizing -- >> it's not a narrative. it's just a point that andrea made. >> i'm not talking about andrea. i'm hearing this a lot coming out of the white house and i'm hearing it also that, again, there is -- there is no doubt it is personal.

i agree with andrea completely, it is personal between john mccain and susan rice. i agree with that completely. what's surprising is it's been a month and a half maybe, two months, and this -- this looks to some, including maureen dawd, like it was a politicizing of intel, the death of an american ambassador and we can brush it aside if we want to sdl there. >> there's the other side to it where you see republicans going after someone they want to bring? >> we shouldn't glide too quickly over andrea other important point, which is the security failure, we had the intel and knew what was going on in benghazi and yet we did not protect our people there adequately. >> exactly. >> to me that's always -- that's the most troubling aspect of the entire thing. it's a thing that senator feinstein was clearest about on "meet the press" yesterday, months of concerns raised on the ground that the consulate itself was not well protected enough

and that people were crying out for her security and that those decisions were not made to protect those people as they should have been. to me that actually is almost the more troubling thing about the entire episode. >> crying out at the embassy, here is part of that exchange with senator diane feinstein yesterday. >> we have a transcript of that meeting on that day. and petraeus were clearly said that it was a terrorist attack. and outlined who he thought might be involved in it. so -- >> this is right after the t attack? >> that's the day after the attack. i think there's no question about it. >> why didn't ambassador rice call it terrorism two days later? >> because she could speak publicly only on unclassified speaking points. i have some concern with those speaking points. but let me correct one thing -- >> what are the concerns and why speak at all?

in other words, why was there reference to it being a terrorist attack taken out of the public talking points? >> that is something that we're going to find out. but it was. that's the point. now, with the allegation that the white house changed those talking points, that is false. >> andrea, how do we find out who took al qaeda out of the talking points? is this the sort of thing we can ever find out, whether it was the political side or the intel side? >> i'm not sure you're going to ever find that out. they're going to hold hearings and they say they're going to find out but this happened somewhere in the intelligence community where they boil everything down, they water it down to come up with a consensus. and they say that in the deputy's committee, at the white house level, the only change -- and this was said again on air force one flying to asia by the -- by one of the top national security officials, that the only change was to change the word consulate to mission because it was not technically a consulate.

so they claimed that at that rather high political level, the deputy's committee, that was the only change. clearly the analysis was changed somewhere by someone from either the, you know rs director of national intelligence team or the cia or somewhere in between, state department, defense, everyone weighs in on this. and to find out which bureaucrat changed that, that's going to be pretty tough. somebody may be scapegoated for it. >> i don't think it's that hard to find out. these things circulate as drafts, mark it up. they send them to someone else, around and around. there are thousands of electronic copies of this. if they want to find out. >> you know the senate wants to find out, and the house. >> right. coming up on "morning joe" the moderator of "meet the press q. "david gregory will join us. >> busy day yesterday. >> yes, he did. and chuck todd, traveling with the president main myanmar. the magazine's editor in chief tyler brule will be here to

reveal who tops the list. and new york post columnist john podhoretz joins us and, next, michael len has the political playbook. >> good monday morning to you, mika. this is called the busiest travel week of the year. let me take you through thanksgiving day holiday. let me show you where the travel concerns are with the weather. today we're starting off with a cold morning in new england as we get ready for school and work, temperatures in the 20s and 30 frz areas from albany, new york, to hartford north ward. not bad in the big cities. highs in the upper 40 toss low 50s. as far as the rest of the country goes, a nice warm-up for the middle of the nation. the northwest is where all the issues are. and this will be the story all week long. a lot of heavy rain on i-5. that's one of the travel trouble spots through thanksgiving day. beautiful day today east of the rockies. just about every where. watch out for the fog in detroit early this morning. then as we go into tuesday, notice, nothing really changes. we actually start to warm it up

a little bit in a few spots. the northeast continues to be the issue. and then for the busy travel day of the year, on wednesday, the northwest is still an issue and even thanksgiving day, not a lot changes. just a few showers out there through areas from wisconsin down through kansas city, possible chicago late in the day. overall, this is about as good as you get for a travel week forecast heading into thanksgiving. you're looking at new york city. no wet weather in your part all aft way through next weekend. nice change and good relief weather for victims of hurricane sandy. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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to come home for the holidays. that's double miles you can actually use... sadly, their brother's white christmas just got "blacked out." [ brother ] but it's the family party! really jingles your bells, doesn't it? my gift to you! the capital one venture card! for any flight, any time! that's double miles you can actually use! how illuminating. what's in your wallet? let me guess, am i on the naughty list again? ho ho ho! sh. it is 27 past the hour. time to look at the morning papers. "usa today," nearly 4 million americans are preparing to hit the road this week for the

thanksgiving holiday. rattner, are you packing up the station wagon? >> exactly. got the dog, got the kids. >> dog on top, the of course. data shows it's the deadliest seven-day period of the year for car travelers. aaa recommend they stay alert for extra commuters on the roadway. and uptick for drivers who get behind the wheel after consuming alcoholic beverages. be careful out there. from our parade of papers, the chicago tribune, hostess brands heads to bankruptcy court today. the first step and last hope to keep the beloved twinkie alive. several companies are believed to be interested in purchasing the most recognizable product in the hostess brand portfolio. so far twinkie sales have brought in $68 million of revenue this year. >> twinkies are not going away. >> are you sure? >> pretty sure. >> really? >> are you concerned over the fate of the twinkie? are going to buy the twinkie?

>> yes. you don't like them? >> they're not healthy. having said that, walking about thousands of jobs. it's not easy. ker concerns over the fate of the twinkie prompted a reporter to ask chris christie about the junk food crisis. >> i'm on saturday night live enough, you think you're getting me behind this microphone having me talk about twinkies. this is a set-up, man. i know it. you people are the worst. this is a set-up. i am not answering questions on twinkies. no, no, no, no, no. it's bad that i even said the word twinkie from behind this microphone. >> you know what, and i must read, there's one from sooek emanuel about snack foods and we'll talk about it from a health perspective later. >> looking forward to that. >> you will enjoy every minute of it. >> and it implicates michael bloomberg. >> you know what? you will be reading it. thank you. out loud to everybody.

the entire piece. with us now, let's go to political, chief white house correspondent michael len is here with the morning playbook. mike, i guess -- >> good morning. >> good morning, mika. >> happy monday. the obama campaign used online data to their advantage during the election. now the race is over, are they still -- mika, this is amazing. they're going even further. yesterday the president's campaign manager jim macina blasted out an e-mail to tens of millions of people on their list asking for more data. they're going to continue to work this muscle, build this database, asking their supporter, volunteer what's they would like to do for the obama organization, they call it, in the future. how many hours would you be willing to volunteer in your community for the obama organization. so they're asking for suggestions of what they should do next. help local candidates run, help local issues. and they also ask such porters,

would you like to run for office, what would you like to do in the future? so they're being very forward looking, looking beyond presidential politics to make this the premier database of democratic public life in the world. >> is there a republican alternative to this? let me ask all of you. why are the republicans so far behind, when you dig into this and find out, top companies do this all the time. top companies data might. what the obama people did may have been radical for politics but it was pretty pedestrian for top corporations. >> they missed the key cycle. one of the -- >> by the way, i don't mean to put down what the obama people did. that's the wrong term. it was radical. it was revolutionary. i'm blown away by it. but i talked to a top advertising guy this past weekend and he goes, you know, the big shock is that this was so radical for politics. we've been doing this for years. >> you think about in 2008 what

they started, what they built as a foundation for this was radical for politics. again, not for consumer marketing but for politics it was. they got a huge leap frog, a huge head on republicans because the mccain campaign was so backward in so many different ways. so they had this basis on which to build. and they built on the 2008 bed rock. 2012, part of what happened to republicans is having missed that cycle in every respect, social media, the database set, all that stuff, they're still running now two cycles behind because they had nothing to build on from before. >> the republicans weren't punished in 2010. in fact, they were rewarded, so i guess it's a false sense. has anybody here ever seen the same party be so far behind in two cycles? because the romney people were just asleep at the switch. you talk about mccain campaign, the romney campaign was just as oblivious to this. >> and history will be written

in this. some republicans passed on buying the right technology and in part because if you don't have the white house there's a senate committee, house committee, presidential campaigns. they did not have the money to make the investment in leadership early and and paid a huge price for it and there's still a chance they won't be able to catch up in two years or four years unless they get better organization than they have now. >> michael len, thank you very much. >> have a great week. may yojor shake-up in the b fighting irish stunning upsets to the top two teams in the nation. >> this is huge. >> and all the weekend's nfl action with nbc's mike fluoro. we'll be right back. into their work,

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jones, over from houston in the off season. and jones is inside the 40. jones has one man to beat, and that's the kicker. and he is in for the touchdown. >> great run, great dance. lousy steeler uniforms. with us now north the "morning joe" gridiron grind of the sports blog profootballtalk.com, nbc sports mike flurio. >> you don't like the old three

stooges football uniform? >> i love it. i wore that same outfit to church yesterday. it didn't go over too well for me either. let's talk about the ravens and the steelers last night. what happened? >> it doesn't matter who is on the field when these two teams get together they hit hard, play hard. it's a close game. it didn't matter. close gaye game. this thing is at some point they should have put byron leftwich on the sideline. a lot of fans are going wonder why they didn't put in charlie down the stretch. >> why didn't they? >> good question. probably not going to get a straight answer to it because something was wrong with leftwich and he would have given them a better chance. it was a close game. they play again in 13 games. >> surprise play of the year, the colts and andrew luck? he went up against bill belichick yesterday. things didn't work out so well. >> not very well at all. i think the patriots figured out a way not to blow a lead in the fourth quarter. if you have a 40-point lead in the fourth quarter, hard to blow

it. 59 points, the most in franchise history tied with 59 they put on the titans a few years ago. the patriots, when they are clicking, best team in the nfl. they're going to have to do it without a tie end. broken forearm. he will be out several weeks including thursday night. >> what happened to andrew luck? it's hard to criticize the guy. he's had a great season. but did belichick just -- >> belichick, he does a great job against rookie quarterbacks. qu quarterbacks the first time he ever faces them. the koeltsz have been so resilient all year and still? great position to make it to the postseason. kae game coming up baines the bills. the winner is in great shape, loser is in bad shape. you figure out the colts will find a way to regroup. >> rex ryan stands stubbornly, stubbornly by sanchez. yesterday it pays off. >> it does for now. this has the feel of let's wait and see whans. b what happens. after the anonymous quotes, the

owners speaking out, supposedly a meeting among the owner and top football brass about what's going wrong with this team. if they can beat the patriots thursday night, all of a sudden, 5-6, and they can make a late push. that's why you don't give up in november because we see teams every year get hot down the stretch, neek into the postseason. the teams hot in december, they can do good things in january. >> andrea, the red since took on the eagles, philadelphia having a worst fall than the republicans. yesterday, man, rg3 looked great. >> it was a great game. 85 yards running. 200 yards passing, 4 touchdowns. he had a great -- and santana moss' catch, i think you played it earlier. >> playing it right now. >> not only the catch, but look at the second effort. look. >> unbelievable. >> there was another touchdown where the guy was so far open and rodney harrison from "football night in america" said

the defensive backs will stop running so they're not in a highlight. that's how far running they were. it was a great day. the story is, when does it end. he's done. it's just a question of went. >> when. >> it's a shame but the eagles team have lost their way. falcons came back. my falcons. had a rough week last week the election, crimson tide, and the falcons. yesterday they came back. >> when you can overcome five interceptions from your quarterback, when you can still win when he has a career worst day, you've got a team that is ready to do some special things. all the pressure is on them in january when it comes. it's mounting. it's all going to be can the falcons deliver when it counts in the playoffs. >> matt ryan having a horrible, horrible game. and, of course, the question mark now gets bigger over his head, can he do what he hasn't been about to do yet and deliver down the stretch? >> and i think they'll continue to win in the regular season.

although he still has two games against tampa bay. and tampa bay, we wrote them off early. they are looking pretty good right now. came back from 11 points down. won the game in overtime. those two games coming up are going to be great. >> you know who else is coming back, the alabama crimson tide, my friend. >> when i was here last week i knew that saben was going to get them back in the top two and all he had to do was beat up on a high school team to do it. >> if that makes you feel better. noter game at number one. a lot of people still not giving them respect. those are the type of teams that sometimes rise up and shock you. i mean, notre dame may be a lot better than we give them credit for. alabama back at two. georgia three. alabama plays georgia in the sec championship game. florida is right behind them. >> when you see notre dame/alabama, i think back to '73, sugar bowl. >> is this going to be the same

thing. >> another classic bowl game because you just assume alabama will blow them out. >> notre dame still national championships in '73, '74, '77. i don't know an alabama fan alive then that doesn't want that match-up and take the frustration 30 1/years out. let's talk about the games quickly saturday night. holy cow. k state, what happened to k state in the hands of baylor and waco was unbelievable. they dismembered them. and then, of course, stanford, as mark said, so cool under pressure. oregon, a crazy stadium. >> it shows you how much the pressure mounts on the teams on the top. as you get deeper and deeper into the season and you foale what you're working for is right there but we have to just not screw up this week or next week. you can just sense it, here it comes. it gives the opposing team extra motivation to be that team that can knock off one of the top teams in the country. >> mike, who is the best team in

the nfl right now? >> i would say new england patriots. right now, the patriots. will it be in december or january? we'll see. >> if you had to protect a super bowl, patriots and the bears? >> i picked the patriots and giants in september. i'm nervous about the giants now. i've got to stick with that. >> i think the bears. >> they didn't lose this weekend. >> they play tonight. they could lose tonight. >> i know. >> but they didn't lose this weekend. >> you're right. >> mike, thank you so much. coming up next, mika's must read opinion pages. it has nothing to do with sports. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

time now for the opinion pages. zeke emanuel writes in the "new york times" about the high cost

of free office snacks. >> he does. he says -- i love zeke emanuel to start with. i find this article compelling. >> why? >> he basically says -- they want me to read it, i guess. i would rather not, just summarize pit v it. he says most snack foosds in the office are horribly filled with calorie, salt, and sugar. >> which is why we eat them. >> he trashes keebler elves, fig newtons and potato chips. >> it's all bad for you. >> all of these things are bad for you. also, he's not in favor of gum my bears, licorice, skittles and candy. i want to point out he sites a statistic that says if you eat a bag of potato chips every day for a year, you will only gain one pound. >> all those things. we need a solution. we need salvation. >> a solution? >> yes. >> seaweed.

>> i'm sorry? >> seaweed. >> what do you mean? >> dried seaweed. >> what, are we supposed to rub it on our skin? >> heat it, apparently. 30 calories, no salt, no sugar. mika, you're for seaweed, right? >> i am. greek yogurt. >> he also, by the way, comes down firmly against one of your favorite snacks. >> what? >> the vegetable chips. >> terrible, saturated fat, salt. >> i love them. >> again, fatty, bad. >> i'm going start having those. >> i eat a box of them. >> solution is yogurt and nuts. yogurt and nuts. >> how many do you eat? >> i love seaweed salads. >> yogurt, nuts, and seaweed. >> i eat a lot of yogurt. >> are you looking forward to your snack break today, joe? >> we're going to try this on you. the bottom line is, anything out there that's considered a snack food in a package is probably bad for you. it's depressing. it's a very bad food environment that we live in. thank you for bringing this to

the table. >> you just marginalized yourself in a way that your two mean brothers never could. >> p we all lived under the sea. >> intellectually limited. "new york times," the liberal gloat. he makes a lot of points in this piece. i'm going to read one off the computer. let's zoom in on what he says about, for example, what happened with the hispanic vote. are democrats winning hispanics because they put forward a more welcoming face than republican s do? one more in keeping with american's tradition with migrants yearning to breathe free? yes, up to a point. but they're also winning recent immigrants because those immigrants offense wrnts a simulating successfully or, worse, ares a simulating downward, thanks to rising out of wedlock birth rates and drop out rates. it depends heavily on the darker trends, the weaker that families and communities are, the more necessary government support inevitably seems, which is an interesting point.

he goes on to write, he mentions a couple of of different other factors, society, what unites all of these stories is a growing failure of america's local association, to foster stability, encourage solidarity and make mobility possible. this is a crisis of the republican party often battling this understands, costing democratic leaning voters as lazy moochers or spoiled children seeking gifts rather than recognizing the reality of their economic struggles. >> i'll be honest, i was made uncomfortable by the column yourself. ross, who is a great writer, i love reading his columns but yesterday it sounded kind of like sour grapes. sounds likes he said the democrats won because of societal breakdown and that democrats are winning because they embrace groups that are part of, you know that are adding to the breakdown of family life in america, of

religious institutions, of all the things that we old dear. i'll just say, i was -- i was made uncomfortable by the column. >> a lot of republicans were energized by it and thought, this is part of our comeback. >> no, no, it's horrible. just say, you know, we only lost because the other side sucks. that's what you can break it down to. any republican embracing this is sticking their head in the sand. again, ross, maybe he has good points. maybe he and bill bennett, you you know, bill bennett talked about this in in '93 but never said we republicans are losing because we're definie ining dev i did down. >> even if you think that analysa analysis is correct, you've got to say here's what your party is looking at. >> it sounded discorded with what he usually does. >> i'll just say that one of the demographic points that some smart republicans have been making recently is that the

president won asian-americans by 72 -- 72% of the asian-american vote. there's no -- >> i didn't read are asian-americans lazy? >> nobody said that here. >> if asian-americans only worked harder maybe they could get into top schools and universities. that's a great point. >> there are no trends. >> that's why we have you here. >> there's no trends of family breakdown. no immigration policy to cite. there's a reason why asian-americans voted by 70% for the president. >> they do like gifts though. they like gifts. that's what mitt romney says. >> there are discussions out of this. >> andrea, listen, i don't want to undercut this article completely. i'm sure there's some great points here that we need to study as a society. i would just say not as a republican party though because it justifies a route among all minority groups. >> i think you've got to look to the governors, bobby jindal and other governors who are taking a

realistic look at their party. they need to rethink policies. i talked to labrador who is a very smart congressman, very conservative, tea party backed, who believes that a lot of this is just nonsense and they've got to really take another look at what where they're going. he's interested in tax increases if the revenue is matched, you know, with -- he said he would have voted for -- he would have raised his hand in that debate with the 10-1 offer early on in the primary season. you've got to get those spending cuts locked in. that's what they're talking about. you guys were talking about the way they're negotiating. they're negotiating something that at least even if it's postponed, is locked in. that's where the republican haass party has to go. >> right. and by the way, if society is breaking down and it's costing republicans, why are 60% of the governors in america republican? why is it that the majority of state senators in america are republican? why is it that the majority of state legislative members are

republican? why is it the majority of the house of representatives is still republican? you know, i think we've got more of a problem with the national party than data mining and societal breakdowns. but i could be wrong. >> we shall see. ahead this morning, chris christie makes a cameo appearance on saturday light live's "weekend update." we'll show you how it went.

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andrea mitchell, thanks so much. who do you have at 1:00 p.m. on your show? >> johnny isaacson, and dennis and ross about israel and gaza. >> and your most important guest is, who is it? >> mark halperin. >> yes. great rarity. mark really does that. >> that is the correct answer. andrea mitchell, you win a prize. tell them what they win. coming up next, a t lot of big news is made on "meet the press." yesterday david gregory is going to join us and also here onset, fortune magazine's andy and we are going to be talking about the businessperson of the year and this guy could be the businessperson of the decade. i just want to give her everything. [ whistles ]

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♪ i'd like to thank some people. i'd like to thank the red cross and first responders. i'd also like to give a special thanks to my lovely life who is here today who put up with a husband who has smelled like a wet fleece for the past three weeks. >> you have been wear that fleece a lot. >> it's basically fused to my skin at this point. >> i have seen you wearing a suit. >> oh, yeah, but i wear them over the fleece. i'm going to die in this fleece. if i make it perhaps with a line from a famous new jersey poet, everybody dies, baby, that's a

fact. but everything that dies one day comes back. put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty, and meet me tonight in atlantic city. >> that's right, seth. >> i don't know if i would call him a poet. >> that's right. he's more of a state. >> he was pretty good. he did good. i like it. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. mark halperin and steve are still with us. managing editor of fortune magazine, top businessperson of 2012. we'll get a look at that in just a moment. and in washington, we have the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. david, thanks for being back with us this monday morning. >> you bet. good morning. >> busy "meet the press" yesterday. >> really business i "meet the prsz" and of course a lot of talk about susan rice who may be the next secretary of state, also a lot of talk about

benghazi and the question of whether the white house basically misled the public by sending susan rice out five days afterward when petraeus last week said what he said which was, we knew immediately it was a terror attack from al qaeda. >> we'll start right there. we begin this hour with developments in the on doing con k tro controversy. members of congress are now vowing to find out why the cia's conclusion that terrorism was to blame for the t attack was removed from u.n. ambassador susan rice's talking points. in the days following the deadly assault ambassador rice said the administration believed the attack was a reaction to an anti-islamic video. an associated press report says former cia director david petraeus testified on friday that he believed all along that the attack on the consulate was a terrorist strike. he's the chair of the senate

intelligence committee and senator diane feinstein on "meet the press" yesterday wanted answers. >> we have a transcript of that meeting on that day. and petraeus very clearly said that it was a terrorist attack. and outlined who he thought might be involved in it. so, you -- >> this is right after the attack? >> this is the day after the attack. i think there's no question about it. >> why didn't ambassador rice call it terrorism two days later? >> because she could speak publicly only on unclassified speaking points. i have some concern with those speaking points. but let me correct one thing. >> but what are the concerns and why speak at all? in other words, why was there reference to it bag terrorist attack taken out of the public talking points? >> that is something that we're going to find out, but it was. that's the point. now, with the allegation that the white house changed those talking points, that is false.

>> you know, i don't -- david gregory, i don't get it. and what i don't get is how you could remove a couple of words from talking points that completely change the meaning of those talking points? if you're going remove a couple of details to protect assets on the ground, that's one thing. but if you say it's a video on youtube instead of an al qaeda attack, that is radically different and really, and you went right to it yesterday, really troubling. >> well, and i think what rodgers and feinstein do to underscore that is say, look, who are we protecting? what is this idea of protecting sources and methods? that's clearly backfired. you're tipping off al qaeda when they know that we're investigating them anyway, to take that out of the talking points, to change the narrative because, again, review what the reality is. attack happens. the cia director says immediately afterward this was a

terror attack. and then days later, the administration and the person susan rice is saying it's not a terrorist attack. why change the narrative, who changed the narrative? what's important in terms of what feinstein believes is that susan rice is not the appropriate fall person here. she was working off of the talking points provided to her and that someone, and it wasn't -- feinstein doesn't say this was a political cover-up. she said it was absolutely not that. why was the narrative somehow changed in the presentation to the american people? if there was so much sensitivity about how they were investigating, then don't talking about all. don't go public at all. i think mike rogers, republican from michigan, chaired a house intelligence committee has concerns about why that narrative was changed, whether it was more political and then you take it to this other level with senator graham and mccain who say, oh, no, this was absolutely a political job here, to basically, in a political

season, say that -- not to admit that it was terrorism because it would undercut the argument that the obama team had decimated al qaeda. >> and i wonder if senator feinstein's comments can be considered unequivocal, that the white house had no involvement. who can unequivocally say that? >> i don't think she can know that without the investigation. >> i don't know. >> well, the white house has said on the record that they only changed one word. but that doesn't mean that other parts of the executive branch, which are not the white house, could have changed these talking points as they went through the interagency process. >> republican senator lindsey graham believes the issue was clearly linked to the presidential election and would have ruined the administration's narrative that al qaeda was on the run. >> why would you choose someone who had nothing to do with benghazi to tell us about benghazi? that's kind of odd. the president said why pick on her. she didn't know anything about benghazi. she was the most politically compliant person they could find. i don't know what she knew but i knew the story she told was

misleading. i don't know why it was misleading but let me put this in context. with this white house mislead the american people about national security events? i think they might simply because when the bin laden raid occurred they leaked every detail about the raid. we heard a lot of details about classified information to make this president look good. so if they would leak classified information to make him look good, would they withhold information to prevent him from looking bad? >> obviously there's been concern, andy, over the past six months to a year that the white house or somebody has been leaking classified information to the "new york times" and other publications to make the president look good politically. that's -- he's picking up on that. but you know, if you're watching this and go, why is this relevant? we should really be more kend, as john said, accurately, about the safety of our people on the ground. that matters more even than this

political dust-up. i guess it matters because susan rice may be the next secretary of state and that's a big question mark now over her head. >> yeah, i mean, does it show competence, does it show that the administration is merely spinning or that they don't have control, that near not really protecting american assets. and is she the right person for the job. those are the questions right now. que you know, you have to wonder is this a prudent use of everyone's time, dredging back and going back here. you know, i think senator graham has a point. all administrations do spin things. but is this more than just merely spinning? >> and they all do spin, david. and the thing is, also, though, as you know, there have been complaints from democrats as well as republicans that they've been kept in the dark about this attack from the very beginning. >> look, the big question that hangs over this is why not call it what it was at the time? and if the answer is, well, we didn't know exactly what it was, well, then, david petraeus seems

to contradicted that interpretation of what happened on the ground. that's the critical point politically right now. does that go anywhere? maybe only if the president nominates susan rice because clearly republicans want to litigate this in the broader pout of whether the government led by president mislead their foreign policy record. i think there's something else going on. i believe that senator mccain -- senator graham, what they're ultimately really concerned about is how the united states wants to use its power in the middle east now this this post-afghanistan/iraq world. what they have a real problem is is the idea of a light american footprint in this part of the world when there's still terror elements out there. a footprint that doesn't have its act completely together with regard to protection of any kind of u.s. installation. was there a breakdown in communication or asset allocation between the defense department, state department,

and cia? and whether you can rely upon local resources, like local militia, police, and otherwise in a country that's still trying to reconstitute itself like libya. >> steve, is this relevant if susan rice isn't nominated as secretary of state? i don't see how it is. i mean, yeah, it's relevant as far as let's clean this up, figure out if the white house did things for political reasons, but what's going to happen after that? it seems to me the important point is how the impacts susan rice and if susan rice isn't going to be nominated as secretary of state, then doesn't this parade march on? >> pretty much, yeah, look. first of all, this is not a hard question to answer, as i said earlier. there's going to be plenty of e-mail traffic and heity of records as to who said what to whom. we should be able to find out and get this off the table once and for all. i think what david says refers back to the important point, which is that we did have good intelligence about what was going on in libya and get we did not have adequate security at that mission. and as david said, that's what

bothering mccain and graham and a lot of other people. a question of what is our security approach going to be to places like libya where we need to have a presence but we need to also protect the people who are there. >> all right. budget negotiation are on hold this week as lawmakers head home for the thanksgiving holiday. that's not stopping executives at 40 of the largest publicly traded companies in the u.s. from scaling back their company's operations. and ahead of what could be a devastating combination of tax increases and deep spending cuts. republicans and democrats insist that they are optimistic about the prospects of reaching the deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. but now, house democratic leader nancy pelosi says she won't budge when it comes to tax hikes for the wealthy, putting her directly at odds with house speaker john boehner. >> could you accept a deal that does not include tax rate increases for the wealthy? we've seen talk about a possible

compromise that would leave rates the same but cap deductions for high income earn weers. is that something that's acceptable? >> no. >> not at all? >> the president made it very clear in the campaign there is not enough. what you just described is a formula and a blueprint for hampering our future. you cannot go forward -- you have to cut some investments. if you cut too many, you are hampering growth, you're hampering education, and investments to the future. >> andy, we seem to be standoff once again. >> it's groundhog day, right? >> it is groundhog day. >> first of all, i would love to have a job as an elected official. getting a week off again. it's not like there's anything important we need to do. >> they've been off, how long have they been off? >> sorry to be sarcastic. >> no. then they come back and do the deal and then they're off again. >> if they did the deal i would give them a holiday. i don't know if they're going to do the deal. that's why businesspeople are so up in arms.

here we go again. no solution. i thought it seemed like the two sides were getting closer to a deal. not. >> if the company is on the brink and you've got nancy pelosi and john boehner and everybody still disagreeing, will you go home? i don't understand, why do you go home? if our economy is on the brink and congress can't make a deal? >> even the language that nancy pelosi just put out there is bad. and i mean, i respect her position. i think it's great that she's sticking to her guns. but i can't stand the fact that these people aren't talking about compromise instead of saying i'm never going to change, i'm never going to move up a the time because that's not the point. the point is getting together and fixing this stuff. it's going to be a little tax, a little bit of a cut, let's do it. >> boy, mika, i don't want to walk into this, but you combine what nancy poelosi said yesterday, what the president said at the press conference yesterday, very defiant. >> speaker boehner. >> yes. >> and, you know, and john boehner right after the election.

i mean, these people, do they get a professional mediator to figure out how to get this done? >> look, this is how negotiations happen. president is taking -- >> we have no solution. that's how negotiations happened before, steve, and then nothing happened. >> this has been going on for years. >> i don't want to be optimistic because i'm not all that optimistic. >> nice. >> but let's just be clear. so, you know, we had an opening round of meetings. they staked out their position. yes, the legislators went home. the president went to asia. there's a lot of staff members sitting in washington right now putting together a framework to try to have another meeting the week after thanksgiving and then see where we go from there. i'm not overly optimistic but i don't think we should throw in the towel just yet. >> believe it when i see it. >> david, i just don't understand. and it's not like i haven't been there and haven't seen how this works before. >> you worked with these very people. >> white can't nancy, who i like, and john, who i like, pick up the phone, talk to each other and work towards a deal? i don't understand -- i really -- this isn't that hard.

it's really not. >> first of all, it's boehner going to be talking to the president about this. and the issue that comes up for me, i think it's pretty clear both in terms of what's being said publicly as you just noted and talking to people who have been meeting with the president behind the screens as i have. the president wants to fight about taxes now and he wants to force this issue about taxes for wealthier people now. he wants to get that done before the end of the year and put off the prospect of broader tax reform which may get into the realm of, a, additional revenue raising and some things that republicans would find palatable if they're going to give a little bit on revenue. what i don't understand is if rates get raised before the end of the year, if that's his position, i'm not sure what he gives in the immediate term. maybe it's on spending cuts to make him get his across the line. >> you're not going to get tax increases from republicans unless you do entitlement reform and you're going do entitlement reform before the end of the

year. >> the deal they're trying to do is you get something on revenues, maybe it's not exactly what the president wants but something like that. and in return the president gives on entitlement reform. he's not going to get it done by tend of the year in terms of specifics. but you have an over arching framework with some kind of teeth that makes sure it happens in the first half of next year. that's what they are trying to do. >> change the se squeserred spending cuts to hit national security is hard. >> yeah. >> so -- >> what a mess. >> as we come to the end of the year, fortune put out their businessperson of the year for 2012. this is a guy who we've talked about before who for years has been overlooked and now you wake up and you see, he's really done more than anybody, i think, to change the way we shop, to change the way -- you know, you can look at -- you can look at a lot of chains like books a million and barnes and noble and borders and you can look at best

buy and this guy has taken business away from everybody. >> yeah, we're talking about jeff bezos, ceo of amazon, 2012 businessperson of the year. and he really is a disrupter. you talked about books and you know about borns and noble and all those companies and music and tv shows, movies, and then electronics. i mean, the company, it's a lot like apple on the one hand in that it's disrupting all these businesses, on the other hand it's a lot like walmart because they have very low margins and has become america's store. he's a very singular guy in the way he does business and treats his employees. doesn't pay high salaries. makes a senior management write long memos and they all sit around and read themming to. he thinkses about the customer more than competitors. and one of his favorite things to say about the competition when he does think about competitors is, your margin is my opportunity, which is kind of a chilling thing for other companies. >> i just want to talk about changing things. here's my iphone. >> yeah. >> and i've got amazon.

i went ahead because i just did this as an experiment. i don't do a whole lot of online shopping. i said, i'm going download it and see because you can get whatever you want. i click on to amazon. and i just did a couple of tests. the first test was somebody talked about kwisp, aer cereal hate in the '70s. i wonder if i can get it on amazon, guess what, you can. and then i'm sitting -- we're watching kate play soccer, jack, my 4-year-old comes up, he's lost his lightning mcqueen, you know, ipad holder, you know? we got him, you know, like an old ipad and he has his -- he lost it. i said, you know what? hold on one -- because we've been talking about it for two months. with where is it, where is it? i click on and i order it in three minutes on the sidelines whilism wate is'm watching kate.

two days later it shows up at my house. i bring those two very random things up, because -- seriously. >> it's a great example. >> you can shop from anywhere for just about anything. >> and if you're an amazon prime member you got it in two days free shipping. >> if you're my daughter, you ship a lot. >> they care more about market share than about making money. >> another good point. >> and so when does he make money? >> he does from time to time. he really doesn't hold wall street in the same regard as other ceos. a little ironic because he just reported $270 million loss for the quarter. that's because he's always plowing money back into the business. and you know, so many ceos now, all they do is care about making the quarter, making the quarter, putting up the good numbers. and he really doesn't care at all. it's a long-term play. i remember back in 2000 people thought he was going to go bust. he didn't. >> so i'll just add to your

story and say the other side of it is, and he is a disrupter, but if you have teenagers and they use amazon.com, they miss the whole of process of purchasing something and the money and the transaction and the actual physical transaction that has to take place. >> get over it, grandma. number three on the list, brian roberts and steve burke. so number three. >> now, these guys, they're running your company, right? >> that's what i hear. >> listen. they've done this thing. they put the merger together. it's starting to work. the olympics were amazing. the tv shows are hot right now. "the voice," the movie studio is doing well. did you guys notice stock up 58%? >> up 58%? >> yeah. >> comcast. >> and you know, they're clicking. cable town. >> saying a movie is doing well is an oxymoron. >> that's true. >> david gregory, i mean, can i just ask you a tough question? >> yeah. >> how great are these guys?

roberts and burke, they are two of the most handsome guys i've ever seen in my life. >> i think that's where you have to start is how good looking they are. >> i do think that's where you have to start. >> that's big. >> you look that good, you feel good about making a better product and being better leaders. they just accomplished that. >> i bet they eat seaweed, yogurt, and nuts. >> i'm going to be tough on them. they have a serious flaw here, they really do, and people don't talk about it. i think they care too much. i think -- i think -- >> they also may be working a little too hard. >> they work too hard for their shareholders. >> yes, david? >> i have this image of joe recently discovering the concept of online shopping with these pallets of crisp cereal arriving down stairs. >> he's got a garage full of crisp. >>ist i was just making a point, david. i threw a softball. don't come back with a baseball.

a great "meet the press" yesterday. still ahead, new york post columnist john podhoretz, some why he says, quote, mitt romney still doesn't get it. also, the u.s. falls out of top spot, editor in chief tyler brule will tell us who is number one. and shameless gq's michael hainey man of the year, and unbelievably, there's a woman on the cover. i bet she's nude. and glen hubbard joins us next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. nobody said an all-in-one had to be bulky. or that you had to print from your desk.

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i always believe in prayer.

i believe in prayer when i go to church, back home, and if a buddhist monk is wishing me well, i'm going to take whatever good vibe he's can give me to try to deal with some challenges back home. i'm confident that we can get our fiscal situation dealt with. >> hopefully that will help. here with us now dean of columbia university's business graduate school and former economic adviser to the romney campaign. glen hubbard. glen, you caught people's attention last week when you said the first step to avoiding falling the fiscal cliff is to raise average tax rates on upper income taxpayers. >> what are you doing? >> huh? >> you were a trader, 53%. what is wrong with you? >> here's the deal. obviously we would be better in my view if we didn't raise taxes on anyone and we did everything on the spending side. we just had an election. we're going to have to have some compromise. and i think step one is figure

out how to raise some revenue without killing the economy. that's why i suggested limiting deductions. >> for you, that does it. can we get there, though? the president is saying we can't raise enough revenue by doing that. >> you can raise as much revenue as the marginal rate increases he's proposing. here's a secret. we can get through the discussion. in the longer material we either have to raise taxes on everyone or we have to very serious spending cuts. the rich can't carry this. >> glenn, it's fascinating that you say that. i remember, i think it was peter several years ago suggested extending the tax cuts for two years and getting rid of it. the reason why, with revenue, it's the willie sutton concept. raising taxes on the rich may make us feel better about ourselves but it's the other bush tax cuts where you have the bulk, overwhelming bulk of revenue. >> if you raise every tax on the rich that the president has

proposed, 1% of gdp, but our long-term problems are more line 10 percentage points of edg and we know people who study fiscal con sal lagss the successful ones are all about spending. >> let me ask you this. i'm a small government conservative. i get elected in 1994 by running against president clinton's tax increases and the democrat's tax increases in 1993. what's history shown us over the past 25, 30, 40 years in the correlation between raising taxes and economic growth? i've seen an awful lot of charts over the past five years that suggest there may not be as direct a correlation as people like me believe? >> a lot of things going on with the economy. '90 wrz a time of high growth and higher taxes. it doesn't mean high taxes caused high grout. >> too many variables. >> the real issue is the size of government. if we really want a big government, everybody is going to have to pay for it. that's probably a consumption tax. if that's the way we want to go --

>> by the end of the '90s, 19% of gdp. what are we now? 24%? >> headed toward 30% plus. >> steve has charged this morning looking at the president's revenue raise proposals. >> to put in context, let's talk about what the president's proposing and what the republicans are saying. so some numbers are the president wants $1.6 trillion of total tax increase toefrs next ten years. in the summer of '11 when the president speaker boehner tried to get a deal done, talk of $800 billion of revenue. we don't know what those are going to come from. so far the republicans really haven't said what they want. so let's look at the components of what if president is asking for. first is the increase in marginal rates where he wants to raise the top two rates, 35 to 39.6 for the top rate. produce $442 billion of revenue. he does want to limit deduction so you will not be able to deduct more than 28% even if you were in a 35% to 39% bracket.

that's $584 billion. he wants to raise rates on capital gains and def dends, $242 billion. other changes and exemptions and deductions, $165 billion and raise estate taxes. this all adds up to $1.6 trillion. if you want $1.6 trillion of revenue, that is very hard to get it without raising rates on the top 2%. that's the president's fundamental point. >> andy, what is the impact of raising $1.6 trillion in taxes and the spending cuts? the "wall street journal" suggesting the top business leaders are bracing for an economic downturn. >> the top business leaders have indicated they're willing to accept an increase in taxes along the lines that glenn was discussing. and to my mind, it's clear. i'm not convinced that raising taxes on the richeest americans are right. but one thing i do know is that it's more right than gridlock, right? so, in other words, if we're going to do it it makes more sense than not doing anything at

all. >> again, because the markets know what's happening. >> another thing is i have never heard a businessperson who has a successful business say i'm not going to reinvest my business because marginal tax rates on the highest $200,000 i made just went from 28% to 33%. silicon valley has some of the highest tax rates in the world and yet is the cradle of inin we investigation in the entire global economy. >> we're mott going to go out and eliminate all of these deductions for everybody. it's just not going to happen. >> you don't have to. compromise and divert deductions to creditses, middle income people are fan fiine. cut marginal tax rates. >> we need to simplify the code. you talk about consumption tax. that's not a bad idea necessarily. there's a lot of work to be done. this is kind of a tweak, almost. it's a big tweak, steve, but, you know, it's not addressing the whole big kahuna, right? >> no, it's not. we were talking before about the

political realities. i think the political realities are such that we need to get deficit reduction. i'm not sure we're going reform the whole tax in the process of it. >> it's not. this is about perimeters. >> when you're up against a deadline you can't get what needs to be done done. >> of course, the real problem is we talked about simpson bowls and about what we're going to save here. we're talking maybe about $4 trillion? we've gone $5 trillion in debt just over the past four years. is it not true thaechb if we get past this fiscal cliff we've got to start preparing for the next one because the debt is just -- it's spiking up towards $20 trillion. >> we have to make changes in our entitlement programs and we can do them in a way that helps lower income americans. this is really isn't hard to do. politician just have to have the courage to talk about social security and medicare. >> glenn, thank you very much. new york sometimes nate

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6. coming up next, the united states is unseated from the top spot in monaco's magazine soft

power list. we will does that with tyler brule. more on "morning joe" when we return.

♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 42 past the hour. look at this. halperin is back. >> they are back. >> you are actually back. >> on. >> saying some insulting? >> no, just reading a magazine. >> that actually works. here with us from london, editor and chief from the magazine that h halperin is reading. tyler brule, reading the soft power survey. tyler, you look quite fantastic. >> let me just say -- >> good gracious. >> let me just say that fashion is part of soft power.

if he were our, we would still be number one. >> wow. >> the united states -- >> i am dressed for the weather, guys. good morning. >> so the united states has plummeted from one to two. >> oh. >> first of all -- >> i'm sorry about this. >> no, no, no, please. explain soft power, first of all. obviously growing and born in the 21st century. >> yes. soft power is really about the gentle art of persuasion and attraction. so if you have to consider -- if you were in a wonderful ballroom at this time of year and you were a nation, would you be the most handsome, dashing nation that everyone would want to go up to? it is really about carrots rather than sticks. it's about having a great tv series as a country rather than calling in drone strikes. >> by the way, this is not -- this is obviously not shallow thinking. it was -- this phrase was first coined in the early '90s by joseph knight, correct?

>> joseph knight, absolutely. we tried to build on it because no media organization has actually gone out and tried to measure it. belook at about 50 different metrics. on top of that, that t cans for 70%. we go in and have a big debate on our floor, twooi cuisine, who has a better airline versus another country, where do we want to fly in to the most, who has the best infrastructure. there's a very subjective side to it, as well, which almost accounts for as much as the science. >> we're a long way from 1939, where european countries would, you know, decide who controlled the future by where they could move their tanks and troops the fastest. now in boardrooms across the world, you've seen it, china is considered to be the up and comer with the infrastructure, with tin vestment, with the soft power. and people are flocking to china. >> well, china has soft power? is that right? because they got some unsoft

power. >> they do have unsoft poup we're but people aren't talking about investing in china because of their navy. >> they have incredible -- that's true. it's true the chinese don't have military all over the world unlike some other country that we know of. >> i'm just making a point. not in the top five, i'm making point though that, again, there's hard power which is just not going to be as persuasive. >> think about south korea, that's -- soft korea. south korea may have soft power because culturally south korea hits above its weight, punches above its weight. young people all over the world like their music, like their food, maybe that's oh we. >> but they don't have tofu. >> no, they don't. >> tyler, as we go through the list, euro centric list. coming in at number five, sweden. sweden. >> wow. >> sweden at number five. i know you're happy that, mika,

is your brother the ambassador there? >> ambassador to sweden. >> wonderful. >> right now. >> softy, isn't he? excellent. we still didn't meet in sweden this past summer. >> i know. sorry about that. >> france in number four, germany at number three. usa, of course, at number two. and uk at number one. >> so let's go through this. sweden, what does sweden have that puts it at number five on the soft power list? >> women, sweden may not have the vehicles that everyone wants to drive. we've seen, of course, defaltering collapse at saab and volvo. what's replaced that on the furniture side, assemble on the weekends and powerful fashion brand in the form of h and m. these are brands that touch people lives around the world. we determined they produce more pop stars than any other country per capita in the world. which actually goes to the earlier point about south korea. of course, we all know --

everything about cy, over it at this point but it's incredible the power that south korea has. if you talk to young kids all around southeast asia, used to want to study in the united states, people want to go and do their sophomore year maybe at a university in seoul, which is remarkable. >> so we've got number four, france. of course we know why everybody -- everybody knows why france is number four. number three, germany. number two, the united states. number one, the united kang come. >> don't laugh at poor germany. >> okay. >> soft power. >> let's talk about germany being a soft power at number three. obviously they control the fate of the eu, don't they? >> this is a big part of it. i think the german story came good this year. if york hard, if you also support light industry, germany has shown that it's still fashionable to make things rather than just have service. but also germany makes a lot of products that people want to drive that they want to operate

in their kitchen, that they even want to wear. so, yeah, this is a big metric. they may not produce loads of pop stars, they may not certainly have a lot of movies but if you look at the consumer base, germany is incredible strong. very aspirational when it comes to consumer products. >> german suit right now? >> i'm wearing italian. who is wearing german clothes? maybe cars and coffee makers, but german clothes? >> who are -- who is wearing german clothes? the germans. >> i bet you probably people sitting on your floor who is wearing hugo boss right now, i would imagine. >> boom. >> let's go to number one, casey casum. united kingdom. talking about the uk. >> that's why we're in london today. >> i love it. i love it. >> we, we had the small issue, of course, of the olympics. thank you, nbc, for that. that, of course, counted for a lot. we had the jubilee in this

country. there's the momentum of the bond film, of course. we've got adele with the beautiful theme track that goes with that. and music does count for a lot. you have to think just television terms, is it down to abby versus homeland and probably -- even though "homeland" did well, "down to nabby" has enormous power globe ali and, of course, produced a gentler, more picturesque version of the uk. >> where is monday knackocle's headquarters? >> about a mile from the studio. >> we would call this list the ranking a -- product of a homer. >> stop that. you did -- >> no, no, no. >> you did not even mention -- >> usa has done well before. >> yes, you didn't even mention that number one reason 2349

♪ household, one direction. >> yes. >> one d. >> the entire wall. >> we will survive this. thank you so much, tyler. the list is on the new monocle. thank you, tyler. thank you so much. up next, "morning joe" football frenzy. roger, roger, roger. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven gets great rewards for his small business! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve great rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. governor of getting it done.

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proving again the british have eclipsed. soccer analyst roger bennett. roger, you think the monocle list is, quote, crap. >> as an instrument of soft power, i would say that, wouldn't i? >> your power is soft in every way that matters. >> roger believes the u.s. is still number one. it's true. >> something german in our wardrobe. >> so let's talk about the weekend. first of all, we have to start with arsenal, todd. every time he scores a goal against his former team, he loses his mind. >> you talk about the darby, goes back to when buffalo bill was still touring europe. this is a massive rivalry. upstairs against downstairs. this is a former arsenal striker.

football is a team game. 60 minutes again getting a little dwrisly. getting a red card there. >> that's a little harsh, wasn't it? >> two-footed. really gave the referee no chance and arsenal gave them no chance. you see the header. arsenal crushed it. the climactic scene. totham, england's team in crisis. >> yeah, they are. it looks like their coach is going to be fired by the end of the season. >> he likes to come to a teen and leave them in disarray. not the only team to use that. >> can i just say, though, he looks very good on the sidelines. it was terrible for the top

flight -- >> english football. >> he really is. i was just going to say that. shocking. >> let's talk about west brahm and chelsea. >> they haven't won in four games. absolutely this year they have russian born nigerian. they are not the only power to lose. norich beats manu. >> been eaten by a lion but in this game the former team. look at that. and that's the only time he'll be seen on american television doing the business. manchester united falling. chelsea falling. this is like a weekend that was like football's arab spring.

absolutely surprising. manchester city playing terribly but somehow -- >> liverpool 3-up? >> all the small teams won this weekend. >> thank you, roger. >> how did he eveverton do? >> l.a. against hughouston, remh of last year. >> amazing. >> she is very excited. >> president obama appeals to a buddhist monk for prayers to help save the nation from the fiscal cliff. borrowing spiritual salvation. what is the white house's plan to tackle the obstacles ahead? that's next on "morning joe." you won't find a "home rule" on every corner,

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as we take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe. "we have mark halperin and john heilemann. steve, and in washington andrea mitchell. >> she is very excited about the redskins. a lot of stuff going on and yesterday there were some explosive back and forths. >> let's start with the budget negotiationsry are on hold this week as lawmakers head home. it's not stopping executives. scaling back a devastating

combination of tax increases. they insist they are optimistic about the prospects of reaching a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. house democratic leader says she won't budge when it comes to tax hikes for the wealthy putting her directly at odds with house speaker john boehner. >> could you accept a deal that does not accept tax increases for the wealthy? we've seen talk about a possible compromise that would leave rates the same but cap the rate for high income earners. is that acceptable? >> no. >> not at all? no way? >> the president made it very clear in his campaign that there is not enough. what you described is a formula and a blueprint for hampering our future. you can not go forward. you have to cut am some investments. if you cut too many, you are hampering growth, hampering education and investments to the

future. >> and even thousands of miles away it appears president obama is still focused on those negotiations. while touring a royal montaster in thailand, he was overheard mentioning budget talks to a monk. >> he's not any m 0 omonk. he has some big investments in the stock market. >> he needs all the help he can get. he later clarified his comments. >> yes, we're working on this budget. we're going to need a lot of prayer for that. i always believe in prayer. i believe in prayer when i go to church back home and if a buddhist mon can k is wishing me well i will take whatever good vibes he can give me to try to deal with challenges back home. i'm confident i can get our

fiscal situation dealt with. >> over the weekend president obama spoke with five influential business leaders including warren buffett and tim cook to get their take on a solution for a long-term did he have significance reduction plan. >> what's it look like? "the wall street journal" talking about a lot of companies really concerned about this one-two punch. >> the reasons are more complicated. the overall slowdown, you have to slow down here, even the middle east into the mix. and so business is becoming more conservative. become optimistic and more generous and spending. an enormous amount. >> it seems we're damned if we

do and damned if we don't. if we fail we understand businesses will get nervous and they'll cut investment. if we succeed. this article suggests that businesses will be concerned because we will have taken medicine in the form of tax increases and spending cuts. >> but they'd have clarity. so first of all, business wants some certainty. business hates uncertainty and this idea you govern day-to-day, week to week, minute to minute peering over the edges of cliffs, having debt ceilings come down on top of you. business can do math and business looks at the deficit numbers and looks to the debt numbers. a series of long-term adjustments that would take effect gradually. where people have predictability and could run their business and rightly or wrongly business believes that would be highly a

creed of the economic activity. >> and take care of the long-term situation. >> what's happening on the hill, guys? john boehner not far behind. >> business people that they're worried about. one is if there's a two-part deal which looks like we're heading towards. if we get a deal in the lame duck, it kicks a lot of the decisions down the road. people making decisions in a different way come the beginning of the year. i don't know the answer to that. these are the three areas of uncertainty. i don't know what the answers are. the second is health care. that's going to be part of this deal. and for a lot of businesses now, the tax issue gets a lot of attention. will obama care be a drag on business? people in the private sector still don't get how it's supposed to help them control costs and deal with payroll situation. >> we've seen this, a lot of

questions about the tea partiers, will they be onboard for a big deal and a lot of people worried you can't get this done in a way that won't have some failures associated with it. >> this may be the age of aquarius. it is really hostile from the left and the right. you see what nancy pelosi said, what john boehner has been saying. then you go back to the president's press conference taking a pretty tough decisive tone on susan rice and then you look at what's happening and also his position on the tax increases. take all of that together, it looks like more of the same. do you sense and from your

reporting are we just having people circle each other or are their feet in stone? >> i think there's still some areas where people can get to the right place. the two things i keep thinking about is the business community, i think, what steve says is exactly right. it seems like from the outside, what they want more than anything is certainty. it's not just moment to moment. it's minute to minute. it's crisis to crisis. and that is an atmosphere that's not conclusive towards optimal economic activity. this notion of trying to get to long-term stability but not having short-term austerity measures would be too depressed on consumer activity seems like where we need to end up and a lot of pressure from republicans to the question of the caucus versus leadership. there's going to be a lot of pressure on republicans to try to get there. whether that's in december or whether that's in the spring.

the notion we might have a tarp blank, that we might go over the cliff but don't hit the first set of deadlines. eventually some of the members are brought to heel by the prospect -- >> not just impending doom but president in their laps. that seems like a possible scenario to me. i think there still is, despite the sharp rhetoric, i still think on the republican side which is what's so critical, this notion of the other thing you heard over the weekend is the implications of the elections are sink iing in and with this continued criticism of romney's comments and so on still setting in. >> you mentioned benghazi. let's go to the developments now in the ongoing controversy over the administration's response to the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi.

members of congress are now vowing to find out were why the cia's conclusion that terrorism was to blame for the attack was removed from u.n. ambassador susan rice's talking points in the days following the deadly assault. ambassador rice said the administration believed the attack was a reaction to an anti-islamic video. but in an associated press report says former cia director david petraeus testified on friday that he believed all along that the attack on the consulate was a terrorist strike. let's make sure we set this up right. we've been hearing mark halperin, reading straight from the cia. we find out this just isn't true, that immediate ly this wa an al qaeda attack, right? >> it's still kind of confusing -- >> by the way, i'm basing that

on "the new york times" reports and everything i read through the weekend. >> they didn't want to say everything they knew in public because they didn't want the terrorists to know the u.s. government was on to them. >> i heard that. seriously, al qaeda. they're like, oh, we couldn't say it was al qaeda because that might expose some of our assets on the ground. andrea mitchell, the term al qaeda if there's a terror attack and you say al qaeda, that's going to he can pose our assets on the ground? as my professor said, that does not pass the straight face test. >> reporter: or the smell test. i think the problem here is what this has exposed is the bureaucracy of the intelligence community. the fact that the intelligence community waters down what can be said in a declassified setting and that susan rice, the criticism is that she took what

they handed her and didn't challenge it. which they say is really unfair. she says it's character assassination to suggest that she would read anything other than the unclassified version of this. a lot of people are asking, where was hillary clinton that weekend? she knew better than to go out into the middle of this. she doesn't do the sunday talk shows. so they gave susan rice the assignment. she went on all five shows and it was supposed to be an important venue for her. by going with these declassified talking points, she has now taken the hit. the fact this remind me very much, joe, mika, and everybody, of what happened in the months leading up to the iraq war when the declassified version was in wmd and what the senators should have been reading. why do you tell the american

public something that is different in meaning. it should leave out details. >> it was al qaeda and, by the way, just so people at home don't think that this is just lindsey graham and john mccain was especially tough on susan rice because susan rice read the intel briefings. she knew what the truth was and she chose to read something, if the script was handed to her, dowd's point, steve ratner, if the script was inaccurate and misleading, she shouldn't have read it. >> i think we have to go through this logically. what we know -- i think what we know is the cia produced a set of talking points that included al qaeda, included more specific references to what happened. somewhere during interagency process, and i've been through a bunch of these processes people mark them up. somewhere along the way those words were changed. >> al qaeda was taken. and the suggestion is by

republicans that it was political. that's one suggestion. and, again, the president's punch line for a lot of speeches, osama bin laden's dead, al qaeda is on the run. >> that's one suggestion but before you get to the question of what susan rice should or shouldn't have said i think we immediate to know the answer of who changed the talking points and why. coming up, why mitt still doesn't get it and everyone is brave enough to say it. conservative columnist for "the new york post" and editor of commentary magazine john podhoretz to discuss his later column and gq's man of the year, this will be some dirty, filthy cover that will get viewers. >> do you still not get it? is it hot? is it great? filthy. >> what is wrong with them? >> what's wrong with them? nothing. they're capitalists. that's what's wrong. >> rihanna.

>> why do you hate free market? >> michael hainey is shameless and he's coming back to reveal the magazine's new issue. and it's the man of the year but rihanna is on the cover. that makes a lot of sense. oh, she has tats. great. >> tattoos all over his body, bill karins, and he didn't have them in all the right places. >> we don't want to hear about it. just do the weather. >> i won't do 0 the joe test. i'll leave it the mika test. good morning, everyone. let me tell l what you we'll deal with as we go throughout the week. some very impressive stuff from nasa. this is a mass ejection. this will cause satellites and given us those amazing northern

lights. this one is going away from the earth and there it was right there. also over the weekend some spectacular footage just off the coast of australia actually. this, remember, as we head to the fall season, they're in the spring season and this is an impressive tornado over water. the pensacola waterspout. it's in the pacific northwest, heavy rain. we've had winds gusting as high as almost 100 miles per hour right along the pacific coast there in the northwest corner of oregon. that's the trouble spot for the next four or five days actually as we continue to go throughout the forecast, we're expecting as much as 5 to 6 inches of rain in the next 48 hours. from eugene to portland, i-5, your travel trouble spots during the busy holiday week. the rest of the country, we look great. as we go through it, the forecast doesn't change much. if you're east of the rockies, you're looking nice with temperatures above average. maybe even a few record highs by wednesday in the middle of the count country.

the busy wednesday travel day. the only issue is in the pacific northwest. that's where the next storm will come in and then thanksgiving day the macy's parade in new york city looks as good as it can get. maybe a few showers near chicago late in the day. i'll tell you what, this forecast for this travel period, i give it an "a." almost an a-plus if it wasn't for the northwest. st. louis, beautiful week ahead for you. what a nice sun rise. okay, now here's our holiday gift list. aww, not the mall.

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we're in a big hole. we're not getting out of it by comments like that. when you're in a hole, stop digging. he keeps digging. hurts our chances, we're in a death spiral with hispanic voters because of rhetoric around immigration and candidate romney and the primary dug the hole deeper. people can be on public assistance and scheme the system. that's real. these programs are teetering on bankruptcy but most people on public assistance don't have a character flaw. they just have a tough life. i want to create more jobs and the focus should be on how to create more jobs not demonize. rhetoric like this keeps digging a hole and if we don't stop digging we're never going to get out of it. >> look who is here? >> it's amazing. joining us now conservative

columnist from "the new york post" and editor of magazine, he wrote a piece entitled "mitt still doesn't get it." and he wrote in part this. romney's vision of a better america than obama's was one that rewarded success rather than penalized it and gave running room to entrepreneurs to realize the american dream. but such a vision isn't actually inclusive. it speaks to those whose energies will likely make them successes no matter what they do and says little to people who didn't think of life in such dynamic terms. many people crave security and stability rather than risk taking and that doesn't make them any less american. they are the workers rather than the job creators and all societies need both. romney is right that the obama vision is too centered on government but his is too centered on the promotion of business and wealth creation at the expense of everything else. >> a very long excerpt.

john, we'll have you on when your new book comes out and read the first three chapters. a fascinating bit of information. your wife worked here for a very long time. >> she did, almost two decades. she worked for "saturday night live" for almost 20 years. >> fantastic. so she's moved on to greener pastures. >> she has moved on to other pastures. she is now a talent agent at icm. so this is interesting. i've been on many other floors of this 30 rock but not this one. >> this is homecoming for him. >> and he used to have his own table at the rainbow room. >> did he really? >> if only that were true. i bet he did. so let's talk about your column and talk about republicans wringing their hands. i never understood in '94 when i came in and somebody said not really sure why we republicans

imbraced big business the way we did when the street always voted against us. wrote checks against us. there was this disconnect. >> there's a kind of big confusion here because the classic republican economic vision and the ronald reagan vision and even the dynamic republican revolution vision that you were a part of was really centering on small business and the idea that small business is the idea that creates 75% of the country and it's this dynamic force. people fail, people succeed. things happen and small business is the engine of creation. and there was big business and small business. >> and of course the secret, something all republicans opp e oppose, someone uses regulation as a weapon against other businesses and gets things pass

that had are helpful to their specific corporation but harmful to competitors whereas small businesses experience the ownerousness of regulation without a lot of the benefits. this is always a problem that the republican party became affiliated or associated. i think in some large senses wrongly with big business sense. helpful to the obama administration. signed on to obama care. what happened with two of the biggest corporations in the country. too broad of a stroke. we're against regulations when, in fact, guys like me got elected because small business own eers would take me into the office and say look at the osha forms. look at all these other forms i have. and so you sit there and you paint a broad brush and you're giving breaks to the big banks on wall street to get corporate

welfare and -- >> that's always the tension. the tension is individual people understand how awful it can be to be yoekd to regulations of no help to a business that grosses a million dollars a year and has five employees whereas those regulations are necessary to manage the conduct of a company with 100,000 employees that actually, you know, dumps polluted water. but they're laid out across american business and they don't have an equal impact. they impact those who can least afford to handle them and that's why regulation is a problem. it's less of a problem for big business just as economic down falls and downturns are less of a problem for the wealthiest. >> a marginal tax rates just

don't impact warren buffett or people that make that much money. if you're a small business owner. >> future economic growth. >> let me ask you, because you have a dangerous amount of his to tore caliper suspective. if you look at republican presidential losses, what do you think the state of the party is right now. ideas, leaders, is this worse than those three losses? better? the same? there is a strong bench. that bench was not seasoned enough. one of the things that people were very upset about in 2011

where you had the sense you had all these rookies that were potential and one of them could have been mike but he didn't step up to the plate to try to win the mvp. in that sense the party is okay. in 2008 and '92 i think the comparisons there are one can see the possibility of a very strong midterm election again in 2014. now obviously in 2010 and it did not help in the presidential years. it could be as i wrote previously, one of the interesting dynamics republicans keep missing the target like what they want is the presidency. they keep getting victories and the energy that creates and fuels those explosions dissipate and they don't quite get the same umph in the presidential

year. >> and '94 led to bob dole in '96. the voting base, mika, expands. we can win the off years. when it expands -- >> i'm just curious. >> theoretically there's marco rubio, there's chris christie, there's -- >> who was there who gets it? i think romney -- what mitt romney -- the problem for mitt romney is they had a theory of the race which is they needed to run against -- he was just going to be the none-obama and the unifying principle would be that obama was bad for business and he was a businessman and he would be good for business.

i'm not talking about the whole question whether or not there were too many people dependent or taking unemployment but middle class people who want to work 9:00 to 5:00 whose 0 lives are centered not on what they do but on their families, their churches, their communities and saying to american capitalism doesn't speak to this specific -- >> that's great. but how do i get my third kid through college? >> or, like, okay, my problem is i don't have job mobility anymore. i have a job and my job is fine but i don't really have that many prospects for moving on to something else, for getting a big promotion, for getting a big raise. that's something that romney and the republican race in 2012 had not a word to say. >> look, one of the big -- you're talking about off years versus presidential years. one of the things rewe lies

there's a different electorate. the electorate that turns out in off years is very white and much older. in presidential years is browner and younger. what romney's statements seem to indicate to me, he doesn't seem to like those voters very much. most think they don't like them because they are brown per se. >> i think it needs to understand something. there's a weird disconnect here. george w. bush won 22% more of the vote in 2004 than he won in 2000 in part by upping, not entirely but the hispanic vote went up 10% or 30% based on his base. he was someone who spoke. he didn't get 27% which is what romney got. obviously if romney had got ebb

40% of the hispanic vote he would have won the election. >> and pigs would have begun flying. >> eight years earlier, it's not some miracle or mystery how. he liked them. he spoke spanish. talked about comprehensive immigration reform. he was not hostile. he was not ugly spirited. and he was somebody who had a record in previous -- in his governorship of being open and inclusive and admiring of the power of immigration. something happened in the republican party. a semipsychotic break in 2005 for reasons i don't entirely understand. it's been destructive. it has been almost a destructive force. you cannot name a single congressional canndidate who ha

benefited from being a harsh immigration restrictionist. not one except for maybe the sheriff in one local race. congressman ran on it in '96, 2004, 2006 and lost. >> so much of this starts at the top. >> based on the standard-bearer, i'm not suggesting we have a replay of what happened with jeb bush and hillary clinton, but i campaigned with jeb in 1998 and i was with him in miami. he would be shaking hands and speaking english. somebody would grab him. he would turn. he would start talking spanish, and, like you said, he could tell like his older brother, jeb cared about these issues. and he angered a lot of his base because when it came to appointments, when it came to policies, he wasn't going to follow that narrow line you talked about. it makes the candidate makes the difference.

the medium is the mess ang. >> well, the most successful republican state in this country is texas. it's the most successful state in this country. it has the same number of hispanics -- 38% or something like that, are hispanic in texas. and texas is a republican state with republican governors who have been open and welcoming and friendly whereas california was a state that had republican governors who turned on hispanics and hispanics turned on them and the state is now solid blue. i mean, it's unimaginable that you can't think of a republican who could win in fcalifornia no. >> john podhoretz, good to have you on the show. up next "gq" editor are in chief michael hainey is here. it's about men, right, michael? >> always. >> this issue is about men. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.

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mika is excited. three covers. >> all weighted equally. that's one. >> we have the editor of "gq" magazine michael hainey.

>> michael. >> hi, mika. >> here are three covers. >> they hand me this one. >> ben affleck, qu"argo." >> he's the sexiest man alive. we don't know what he does. >> i know you did. >> iconic actors. >> one guy i don't know. >> the third cover was kept away from mika and that is of -- >> rihanna. >> is that tattoo real? >> that is real. >> that doesn't wash off? >> no, honey. >> hey, hey. >> that's just awful. >> can you show me your tattoos, please. >> well, i don't think i will. this is your man of the year iss issue. let's talk about it as mika looks at the rihanna pictures. >> she's rendered speechless. >> i am. >> quick shot. okay, go ahead. >> many magazines this time of the year but we put channing and

ben on the cover but we have a lot of other guys inside. obvio obviously if you've seen "argo" it's ben's return and channing has had everything from "magic mike" to "21 jump street" which you saw him playing. >> come on. i don't know who that person is. >> you do. >> i don't. >> we'll debate this later. you also have a list i love the least -- >> the least influential people of the year beginning with mitt romney. >> becoming less influential every day, in fact. >> well, he keeps sticking his foot in his mouth. he can't fade with dignity off the stage. we're equal opportunity. we put michelle obama on there for her obesity program. people are still eating haagen-dazs. >> we need to do more. >> ryan lochte and bobby valentine. >> not a great year for lance.

>> not a great year. >> so you also go through a lot of different things. you talk to marco rubio. went to iowa this past week. >> i actually did the interview with rubio in little havana. >> what do you think? >> i was going to ask you. i think he's a fascinating guy. modest. has all the right things. one thing that sticks out for me if he's really going to be a 2016 guy, he is like obama in many ways but he doesn't have the national profile yes. john, the question for you as well, what's rubio going to run on in 2016? >> i think he's got -- look, in this moment of republican rehabilitation and rethinking, they are looking for leaders and what happens over the course of the next couple of years, what role he plays, what profile, he's starting to push his own version of immigration reform. he'll get associated with several big ticket pieces of legislative business and those

things will come to define his profile within the party and broader if he's successful at doing what he's trying to do. >> what did you wear to the interview? what did he wear? who were you wearing? >> i wore a suit much like today. >> in little havana you wore a suit? what did he wear? >> he wore a suit and tie. much like obama, he's of the community. a real presence. >> you have bolt -- >> hussein bo usain bolt. easily the greatest athlete of the year. who can repeat the things he did. a fantastic profile of him. >> the cast of "parks and rec." >> the new comedy hot house. an incubator. even joe biden will now do a cameo on that show.

>> the chinese dissident who miraculously spirited himself out of china with hillary's help. >> is he still in new york? >> yes, he is. >> and, mika, absolutely -- >> she loves chris walken. >> my favorite actor. >> she is a huge fan. >> do your imitation? >> i can't. >> you do an imitation? >> i know better. >> quentin tarantino. >> i saw "skyfall." >> the trailer is unbelievable. >> the "d" is silent. >> oh, my. >> that's what they say in the trailer. >> these are great pictures. i don't get the tattoo, i will tell you. >> usain bolt. >> a beautiful girl. >> you have you him listed as a

master. >> i decided if it were "gq" magazine run by mika would be kate upton. >> yes, it would be. >> mika-q is what we would call it. >> that's for mika. >> a comeback. >> let me ask you this as we study this because we're all capitalists, was this your best-selling magazine of the year? >> kate upton was among our best, yes, it was. >> what was your best? >> we're hoping this will be our best as well. that's one of our tops right now. >> so how is the magazine business? >> fantastic. "gq" we've raised our circulation every year so when people tell that you magazines are not doing well, we keep climbing and climbing. >> ad revenue okay? >> it's great. we're having our most popular year ever. >> so what's the difference between magazines like "gq" and "vanity fair," esquire and "newsweek" which has struggled? what's the difference? >> whether you're in tv or print, tv shows go off the air.

why? they don't have a compelling reason to be as a media property, whether you're in print or digital or you have to have a reason to connect. "gq" does that every month. certainly connects with mika. >> i was just going to say -- >> it does in some special way. >> shots like the one we just showed. >> content is king. >> content is king. all right. the new issue featured three different covers now on ne newsstands. michael, thank you for being here. for putting up with mika. >> i'm not a suckup. brian sullivan is next with business before the bell. keep it here. into their work,

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welcome back to "morning joe. ". >> it's begun. >> on november 28th. very excited about that. >> is that an angel on the top, a little chocolate version on top. >> i was thinking a dollar bill. a dollar sign actually. speaking of which it's now time, kids, for business before the bell with our own brian sullivan. actually our man of the year. brian. >> yes, of course. >> what's going on this week? >> reporter: you know this week, guys, first off, can i start a petition to put a life sized replica of mika on top of that tree in rock center because she's an angel. >> oh, that's so sweet. >> that was funny. >> you know what makes that so funny is he doesn't believe it for a second. >> okay. >> reporter: list en, it's goin to be a short week, turkey day, thursday, i'm off wednesday so nothing will happen.

>> nothing happens when you're off. >> reporter: we're working friday, unlike you guys. the big issue remains the same. the fiscal cliff, big article about how investors are really starting to think about higher tax rates. paying shareholders a $750 million dividend. tomorrow everybody is rushing in ahead of expected tax rates so that's why we've seen selling down about 1,000 points the last couple of weeks but the futures are higher today, guys. there is growing optimism that a deal of some kind will be reached. what will it look like? will it be exactly what the president wants? we don't know. my own opinion is it's going to be somewhere in the middle, maybe not $250,000 and up or $500,000 and up with deductions. again, just me talk iing to people, i have a feeling mortgage interest tax deduction could be at risk here at certain levels. you can deduct up to $1 million of mortgage interest on a house. i think it might come down. fiscal cliff, it's going to be all over the map.

>> all right, buddy. where are you going thanksgiving? >> reporter: i am home. i am the turkey man. bri brining all day wednesday. if i don't see you, have a happy thanksgiving to all your viewers. >> you're working tomorrow? >> we're going to have you tomorrow. we can't do without you. >> reporter: tell him to give me my abs back. >> i love him. we'll be back with more "morning joe."

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i'm meteorologist bill karins with your business travel forecast. this is one of the busiest travel weeks of the entire year. getting an early jump on your thanksgiving travel. no problems east of the rockies. all the troublesome weather is in the northwest. a lot of heavy rain all through

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welcome back to "morning joe. "what did you learn, john? >> looking forward to reading this issue of monocle magazine. the choices are a little strange. >> we're number two. >> germany and sweden. >> i learned the new issue of "gq" and "monocle" weigh the same amount. >> he has quite a brain. what did you learn? >> a lot of lists today. >> a lot of lists. i have a problem with fortune's list. >> one of our top three favorites. >> they're so beautiful. >> they should be number one. >> i think they were both tied for sexiest man alive. we love zeke, right?